freemasonry?

topic posted Sun, July 24, 2005 - 10:20 AM by 
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Has anyone here done any work in the modality of the freemasons? Either as a member or independently?
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  • Re: freemasonry?

    Sun, July 24, 2005 - 12:40 PM
    this is just a random observance of mine, but as I was on the train going to work the other day, I saw a very strange sight. this young, mid-20's gangsta lookin' fellow who was sporting a big huge bling-bling masonry symbol on a thick chain, and much other masonry jewelry as well. very strange. perhaps their recruiting strategy has taken an unexpected turn?
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      Re: freemasonry?

      Wed, June 4, 2008 - 7:14 PM
      Masons have many lodges. A big Chinese gang/masonic temple was well documented a few years back up in SF.
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      Re: freemasonry?

      Thu, July 3, 2008 - 8:09 AM
      I will offer this: you won't seen any Masons of the Anglo-Saxon persuasion doing this. I see this mostly among Latinos in California. Certain Latino Masons seem to like lots of shiny stuff, and like to act as though they are part of some knuckledragging gang, but that is the culture certain members come through.
  • Re: freemasonry?

    Sun, July 24, 2005 - 1:11 PM
    I dont think any one joins anymore. I went through it, they rushed us through because they don't have enough members anymore. I saw a lot of deep shit, and a great show. I wasn't really involved in the scotish rite part, the mason part did require me to memorize verses, not much NLP there that I could tell. They really were not doing in cold readings on me, not trying to get me to do anything. I stopped going and paying my dues. Guess I am not in good standing.

    What do you mean by modality, way of being in respect to NLP or group cold readings? I am lost in the lingo
    • Re: freemasonry?

      Sun, July 24, 2005 - 1:57 PM
      "What do you mean by modality, way of being in respect to NLP or group cold readings? I am lost in the lingo"

      I can't remember who, but I'm thinking the IOT or maybe Carrol's work tends to talk about exploring and working in different magickal systems at different times and for different purposes. I don't remember their lingo for certain, but was thinking they referred to this as a modality.

      So, for instance, someone practicing wicca and adopting wiccan beliefs, (temporarily), would be working in the wiccan modality.
      • Re: freemasonry?

        Sun, July 24, 2005 - 2:27 PM
        mmm. Lost on that one, maybe I don't know enough to answer this question. Wicca to me his belief, NLP is slight suggestion & manipulation of others, group ritual uses NLP and belief. Modality would apply to all, right?

        The rituals are really cool, they had these multi million dollar back drops, and they dressed up, but unlike my great grandfather, who it took 4 weeks to get through all 32 levels of Scotish Rites, we did it in a day, they just dont have the members or cash. Sad, its got some very interesting symbolism in it. I think the power stuctures of the world are shifted and distributed, I feel its better that way, keep the greedy from controlling it all.

        But still I haven't answered your question, sorry.
        • Re: freemasonry?

          Sun, July 24, 2005 - 3:18 PM
          "Modality would apply to all, right? "

          Well, "modality" is a general word. In the specific NLP sense of submodalities being particular nerve clusters like "sight" or even "color", yes, modality would apply to others.

          In the sense of being a type of ritual combined with a symbol set and a set of values or beliefs, NLP, wicca, and masonry could all be seen as different sorts of ritual modalities.

          4 weeks for 32 levels of scottish? wow. That seems fast. and you did them all in one day? I can't imagine they'd have the same impact in that format. Might be convenient, though. I can't imagine spending years of my life on masonry.

          How christian did the masonic symbolism and/or lessons seem to you? I mean, I know the formal answers from the web site, but I'm wondering what they look like to someone with more ritual and/or magickal background.
          • Re: freemasonry?

            Sun, July 24, 2005 - 4:25 PM
            I felt a little ripped off that they did it so fast, it was like a day and a half for scottish rite, Masonry was a bit longer and involved a couple of nights of rituals, but it had a lot of cool meaning in it. I didnt want to spend much time doing it either, I was more curious of what my ancestors did, its got some amazing spiritual parts to it that would take a long time to get into here.

            Masonry doesnt focus on Jesus, he was a jew trying to reform the jewish faith, not create a new faith. But if you do the scotish rites, you can also do the rosy side, like the knights templar, but you have to believe Jesus was the Christ, and since I don't I skipped that part. Did the shriner cermony for a hundred dollars, in about 15 minutes, sort of a rip off, but they needed members, so they rushed us through again.

            The point is that you could spend your life studying all that stuff, its all open and avilable in books, no hidden secrets or powers. Accept the ones you already know about faith and magic.
            • Re: freemasonry?

              Sat, May 31, 2008 - 9:17 AM
              Hey (sorry for reviving an old thread ... )

              <<I felt a little ripped off that they did it so fast, it was like a day and a half for scottish rite??>
              &
              <<Did the shriner cermony for a hundred dollars, in about 15 minutes, sort of a rip off, but they needed members, so they rushed us through again. >>

              Umm...wow. Where did you do this ? (In what State and under what Grand Lodge ?)
              • Re: freemasonry?

                Sat, May 31, 2008 - 11:01 AM
                Good question - I want to avoid such a lodge if I join up. I want people that still feel engaged.

                Any good suggestions for Masonic lodges in the greater Denver area? I don't want people just going through the motions, and I prefer if the lodge has members that have esoteric interests, if at all possible.
                • Re: freemasonry?

                  Sat, May 31, 2008 - 3:19 PM
                  I can't speak for masculine masons. My advice is to look up the LDH.
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                    Re: freemasonry?

                    Sun, June 1, 2008 - 10:24 PM
                    Does LDH have a distinct ritual or use similar stuff that would be acceptable to UGLE (in the context of "ritual" only ?)
                    • Re: freemasonry?

                      Mon, June 2, 2008 - 7:53 AM
                      That's a question for science fiction writers. The fact that LDH isn't chartered by the UGLE and makes masons of women knock it out of the running for UGLE recognition so far that it doesn't matter. These two facts are essentially the points which define the UGLE today, (far more so than the rituals involved).

                      What I will say is that UGLE and UGLE derived lodges have had to invent an entirely new category to describe groups like the LDH. They can't claim that LDH isn't masonry. If they did, then it would be acceptable from a UGLE perspective to join both groups. And they can't admit that they are regular masons or they've had to admit LDH members into UGLE lodges. So instead, they descibe the LDH as either irregular or as clandestine masons.

                      In masonry, the word "regular" or "recognized" has a very specific meaning - basically, that you are allowed to attend a particular lodge despite being a member of another. However, it's pretty clear that the UGLE does, in fact, acknowledge that the LDH is something more than cowen, (ie, non-mason), and something less than a UGLE derived lodge.

                      I've never been part of a UGLE derived lodge. However, of the rituals that I've found described on the net in various places, the LDH rituals appear to be no more distant variations than most other local variations that I've read. That is, the rituals all vary somewhat from place to place. And LDH rituals appear to be within that reasonable variation to me.
                      • Re: freemasonry?

                        Mon, June 2, 2008 - 9:03 AM
                        not familiar with some abreviations. please explain LDH and UGLE. thanks in advance.
                        • Re: freemasonry?

                          Mon, June 2, 2008 - 6:31 PM
                          Holden

                          LDH = Le Droit Humain en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Droit_Humain
                          and UGLE = United Grand Lodge England (founded 1717) which is often referred to as being generally (but not universally even within "Regular" masonry) accepted the first of the Modern Grand Lodge System of "Regular" Freemasonry

                          Teamnoirr <<That's a question for science fiction writers. >>

                          Sorry - I would not have asked it if I thought (or knew) that was the case.

                          Despite and disregarding "Landmarks", I think it is the "Honourable Fraternity of Ancient Freemasons" www.hfaf.org/ which is the organisation which I understand uses ritual which is basically the same used in many English & Regular Male Lodges. Hence the question. I have never read nor seen LDH Ritual. (and ritual will also vary in many "regular" lodges -even within England where there is no proscribed ritual.)

                          <<The fact that LDH isn't chartered by the UGLE and makes masons of women knock it out of the running for UGLE recognition so far that it doesn't matter. These two facts are essentially the points which define the UGLE today, (far more so than the rituals involved). >>

                          I am a member lodge in "Regular" (*cough* because I have a good understanding of "regularity", the GL system, GL Sovereignty, how recognition works) freemasonry - but very interested in other masonic organisations (and I consider LDH to be one). I edit a masonic mag and hold office in my lodge (but not Grand Rank nor am I Past Master - but fairly well educated on masonry - and always looking to build upon what I already know.. )

                          <<That is, the rituals all vary somewhat from place to place. And LDH rituals appear to be within that reasonable variation to me. >>

                          Thanks - that is interesting to know.. and unsurprising.

                          And I asked the question having recognised you from other tribes teamnoir.. I am interested to know (landmarks aside) how close the rituals are .. but if you have not had exposure to any ritual used by an Internationally Recognised GL- it may not be a question you can answer (nor can I..)

                          • Re: freemasonry?

                            Mon, June 2, 2008 - 10:01 PM
                            Well, LDH itself is an internationally recognized grand lodge. And I could conceivably join the Grand Orient.

                            And I think it's important to point out that "regularity" is a subjective judgment. What's regular to one GL may or may not be regular to another. UGLE derived lodges generally won't recognize me as regular, but then, my lodge won't generally recognize their members as regular either.

                            In the US, UGLE derived lodges almost certainly claim a vast majority. But they don't in all places, (notably France).

                            Oh, and I'm not offended by the question. I understand both the basis behind the regularity concerns and also why they exist but that doesn't make me any happier with the current state of masonic affairs as regards them.

                            I've purchased a book on the open market that claims to be a listing of LDH rituals. However, I haven't read it, partly because I haven't been through all of the rituals yet. Ask me again in a couple years. :). But the book does exist. I'd have to look up the title but I think I got mine from Amazon.

                            I do know that there is an LDH lodge in LA which practices a rather different set of rituals than most LDH lodges. They were chartered specifically to experiment with a fresh translation of the rituals and I hear they are significantly different. (I haven't made it to any of their events yet). So within the LDH, the rituals vary. My lodge wears all white, for instance, although I understand many other lodges wear all black and white.
                            • Re: freemasonry?

                              Mon, June 2, 2008 - 11:20 PM
                              << understand both the basis behind the regularity concerns>>

                              Less "concerns" and more interest from me.. the only place it becomes an issue is at the door of the Lodge..

                              <<And I think it's important to point out that "regularity" is a subjective judgment>>

                              Hahaha - sure is !

                              Does LDH have a degree system similar to the York or Scottish Rite - how many degrees compose LDH (if you are able to tell me) ?
                              • Re: freemasonry?

                                Tue, June 3, 2008 - 1:35 PM
                                I'm second degree. So I'm far from an expert.

                                My understanding is that we have 3 degrees in blue lodge and up to 33 in related organizations, although the structure of those other organizations and their rituals aren't clear to me.

                                I do know that 32 is the highest, but that 33 is an honor which is granted, whose first requirement is 33 years of active participation. My lodge includes several 33's.

                                I believe that we practice, in one form or another, at least all of the same degrees that UGLE derived masonry is currently practicing, although I am in no position to offer an authoritative claim.
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                Re: freemasonry?

                Mon, June 9, 2008 - 3:57 PM
                Under what Grand Lodge? There is only one Grand Lodge.
                • Re: freemasonry?

                  Tue, June 10, 2008 - 1:24 AM
                  "There is only one Grand Lodge. "

                  Uh... no.

                  There's one per state, assuming you're only interested in white UGLE derived GL's, and many others around the world. If you include Prince Hall, there are more. And if you include LDH and other masonic organizations, there are even more.
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                    Re: freemasonry?

                    Tue, June 10, 2008 - 1:41 AM
                    <<If you include Prince Hall, there are more. And if you include LDH and other masonic organizations, there are even more. >>

                    Too True - See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene...Lodges#USA for a list of GLs which do not include LDH and other similar organisations. .
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                    Re: freemasonry?

                    Thu, July 3, 2008 - 11:06 AM
                    Bah, you know as well as I do which Lodge I am referring to.
                    • Re: freemasonry?

                      Thu, July 3, 2008 - 2:12 PM
                      Honestly, I don't. Are you talking about the UGLE?

                      Even the UGLE recognizes multiple grand lodges. Each state in the US has at least one.
                      • Re: freemasonry?

                        Fri, July 4, 2008 - 12:15 AM
                        <<Honestly, I don't. Are you talking about the UGLE?

                        Even the UGLE recognizes multiple grand lodges. Each state in the US has at least one>>

                        I am in the same boat as Teamnoir - no idea of "The one Grand Lodge" - I know of ones that have clamied that - but none who can sustain such a claim..
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        Re: freemasonry?

        Wed, June 4, 2008 - 7:16 PM
        You want to learn about the Masonic Magical System? Read Pike's Morals and Dogma and listen to how he laughs about the blue degrees, and says the ropes around their necks are there to signify that they are profane goyen being led around by the neck.
        • Re: freemasonry?

          Thu, June 5, 2008 - 12:32 AM
          <<You want to learn about the Masonic Magical System? Read Pike's Morals and Dogma>>

          A very dated text of the 19th Century. As is A G Mckay and the like. If interested better to research modern "Esoteric Freemasonry" in my opinion. I am not a Kabbalistic Mason - although I certainly can see connections. Much of what Pike is writing about is the "Higher Degrees" as introduced in Freemasonry from France in the 17 & 1800's while many view the first three (or sometimes 5 degrees) as predominantly English composition with influence from Scotland... and the Scots also being influenced by Continental Masonry especially France and perhaps Germany..

          There is also a new version of "Morals and Dogma for the Twentieth Century" but I have not read it - indeed I have only read the original text in extract having access to many of the Primary texts Pike is discussing (and some would say inventing or at least influencing) in the book..
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            Re: freemasonry?

            Mon, June 9, 2008 - 4:01 PM
            The Blue Book is "very dated" as well. Seems to me its been in circulation for a long time. They still use that, don't they? Which Grand Lodge are you drawing your experiences from, and which way are you traveling?
    • Re: freemasonry?

      Sun, July 24, 2005 - 1:58 PM
      Oh, and you're saying you actually witnessed deep and/or transformative work in the masonic context?

      Did you experience any such transformation yourself?
      • Re: freemasonry?

        Sun, July 24, 2005 - 2:20 PM
        nope, I did the ritual, it was very cool. I didnt see anything that was like group manipulation. Or maybe I missed your point to your question, help me to understand. I feel transformation all the time, lately I have been getting it from a group called landmark, I see them using the NLP techniques, although I know quite a bit more then the average student, its been really a great experience, because for all I know, understanding doesnt always make me apply and get real transformation in my life. I didn't find the rituals of masonry or scottishrite, or shriners has transformative, I think that's something you do on your own after your a member.
  • Re: freemasonry?

    Fri, October 28, 2005 - 3:15 AM
    The most interesting aspect of freemasonry is the work of the SRIA (Societas Rosi...) as their study list, grade structure and ex grand masters were the forerunners of the Golden Dawn. The Scottish Rite outside of masonry's III degree is perhaps the closest it comes to real enlightenment, the rest, IMHO is garbled history, forgotten meaning and a vehicle for social advancement.
    • Re: freemasonry?

      Fri, October 28, 2005 - 8:45 AM
      So your saying only if you do the Christian part of Scotish rite you come to a real enlightenment? What if Christ was a jew trying to reform to jews, not create another religion, but then this is a pointless arguement.
      • Re: freemasonry?

        Mon, October 31, 2005 - 2:24 AM
        Not really - freemasonry is not a particluar good vehicle for enlightenment - you'd be better off with Vajrayana Buddhism for that . I merely meant that of all the freemasonry stuff, the work of the SRIA is the closest to magick as they at least have a reading list that includes SL Magregor Mathers' works !
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          Re: freemasonry?

          Mon, October 31, 2005 - 1:34 PM
          Have to agree here. A good friend of mine who is a solitary practitioner as well as a member of A:.A:., ex-OTO, and also a Mason and Templar introduced me to his lodge. I have studied Masonry for years and have always appreciated it as a store-house of memes and as an icon in itself (from the gonzo/lucicrous conspiracy angle to the old aeonic archetypal dusty Order). I am still a member (you are for life regardless if you pay dues or even show up until the point at which you get black-balled for some reason). IMO most members have no idea at the true meanings of the art on the walls, the orientation of the temple, the sybmolizism of the floor work, and the rich esoteric history. I would say 1 in 1000 masons or less is actively aware and/or participates in any sort of magick. I got the impression of ancient librarians asleep at the wheel, guarding and caretaking for so long that they have forgotten just what it is in the Library. which has its advantages for one who is aware and comes into their circle. the masons today are desperate for new blood, and just can't bridge the Osirian gap to make it happen at a mass scale to keep the order growing and vibrant. having access to all of their books and artwork has been a fascinating benefit to being a Mason. as far as a vehicle for enlightenment...a tricycle and a tab of acid are as viable as the Freemasons.
          • Re: freemasonry?

            Sat, May 31, 2008 - 11:05 AM
            Can someone explain what the Osirian gap is?
            • Re: freemasonry?

              Wed, June 4, 2008 - 12:57 AM
              I know quite a few Fraters, Brothers and Members of various other occult guilds, pacts, orders, etc. that also pass through the degrees of Freemasonry for the educational value (as an example of an existing pattern of initiation and as a repository of useful lore in occult history for those who can read symbols)
              I have noticed a generation gap....the pre-baby-boomers fading out at advanced age, holding the lodge down....a generation or two missing (boomers, ) and then a tendency for young men who are occult-students or cult-collectors filling up the new ranks....but with motives rather different than their immediate predecessors....in most cases.

              Relevant to your story, while i lived in Jacksonville Florida, the young male Freemasons that i tended to meet were almost always black and extremely motivated, using it as a way to self-empower in a county that was very anachronistic.
              • Re: freemasonry?

                Wed, June 4, 2008 - 8:58 AM
                There were three things that urged me away from UGLE derived lodges when I was first doing my research. Their relationship to and history of racial treatment in the US was one of them. Their attitude towards gender was a second. And their (virtual?) requirement for christian monotheism was the third.

                The LDH has none of these strictures, although it does require theism, (afaik), which seems irrelevant and unreasonable to me, but isn't a personal barrier.
                • Re: freemasonry?

                  Wed, June 4, 2008 - 9:37 AM
                  <<Their relationship to and history of racial treatment in the US was one of them.>>

                  Mmm.. something many American GLs are changing if present.. Prince Hall Lodges (traditionally but no longer African American in membership) were ironically born because "Black" men were accepted into "white" Lodges (no idea what is politically correct words here.. please correct me if I don't us PC language).. Prince Hall was initiated into an Irish Constitution Lodge of white men.. but American Social Boundaries later saw obstacles in acceptance later - and that must have been founded in racism which is VERY UNMASONIC indeed..The policy of recognising only one GL in a geographical location adds further complications even today..

                  << Their attitude towards gender was a second. >>

                  I was worried I might be joining a misogynistic organisation.. but quiet the opposite is what I found.. However there is a growing call to admit woman into the Craft - but also a failure to acknowledge what Regular Freemasonry is - a Fraternity of men and hence a male organisation. That does not devalue woman (or maybe it indeed does.. ) but from my personal point of view - it simply establishes a valuable social space for men to meet.. much like mothers clubs and sororities do for woman and these don't devalue men (IMO) . and hence are of merit.. depends on what you want out of them guess..

                  <<And their (virtual?) requirement for Christian monotheism was the third. >>

                  An interesting comment.. Here (Australia) we have men of many faiths .. Freemasonry is certainly not a Christian organisation - but some think it is - and it seems even some American Masons. Here we don't have a Bible - it is the "Volume of the Sacred Law" which is the Holy book of the Candidates choosing.. You will see the Koran and Tanakh used for instance.. It seems that some American Jurisdictions (especially those in the South) have a focus on Christianity I find very strange indeed.. However several American Freemasons I know are from Polytheistic Religions like Hinduism..

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                    Re: freemasonry?

                    Wed, June 4, 2008 - 9:09 PM
                    That's a pretty fair elaboration on all points.

                    Some American GL's to acknowledge PH and some don't. And some have adjusted their rules about single GL per geography to include "except by treaty" or the like.

                    In my opinion, a group which is defined in terms of being exclusively for men is, by definition, misogynist.

                    The xtian/theism thing also applies to interviews and oath.
                    • Re: freemasonry?

                      Wed, June 4, 2008 - 10:04 PM
                      there is the sense that it is a previous Age's attempt to fulfill the role of Men's Mysteries...
                      initiation from boyhood to manhood and then to masterhood(ederhood) is a classic cycle in many cultures
                      one that we obviously lack, yet try to fulfill through all of our cults, gangs and secret societies.
                      The basic pattern is remarkably intact,
                      but it is a relic to be studied in light of those initiatic cycles set in motion by the New Aeon.
                    • Re: freemasonry?

                      Thu, June 5, 2008 - 12:19 AM
                      <<In my opinion, a group which is defined in terms of being exclusively for men is, by definition, misogynist. >>

                      It is something I have thought on a lot - and experienced, and my opinion disagrees with yours... It came up via another issue in another tribe. If interested - have a look at extremehonesty.tribe.net/threa...86ee4d

                      <<The xtian/theism thing also applies to interviews and oath. >>

                      Certainly Freemasonry (excluding chivalric orders which are Christian in content and also as a requirement for membership in most jurisdictions) requires a belief in "A supreme being" but if that "Supreme Being" is represented by a GL or Lodge as only able to be Jesus - then that would (should) put them outside regular freemasonry.

                      (and I sort of feel like I am hijacking the thread.. sorry.. but I am interested in what you guys make of Freemasonry and also to get some knowledge of LDH from members..)
                      • Re: freemasonry?

                        Thu, June 5, 2008 - 10:32 AM
                        I've given it considerable thought as well. My opinion on monogendered events and groups is quite firm so I think we're better off agreeing to disagree. I know that there are other opinions and beliefs that are self consistent. And I recognize that the choice of which set to accept is a more or less arbitrary and based primarily on preference and wishful thinking. I simply prefer the choice of self consistent beliefs which minimizes the differences between genders and works towards gender equity.

                        And the catch on theism is your quote, "a supreme being". This alone requires a form of theism. And masons seem to be relatively agreed that theism is a requirement and that atheists are not welcome. My personal belief is that both animists and atheists could value and learn from masonry. I see no reason for a theistic requirement. But as I can, at least in my freemasonic modality, sincerely express a belief in theism, this hasn't been a blocking point for me.

                        The second subtlety is that word "a". Does it require singularity? Does it allow for plurality? If one believes in multiple supreme beings, does one qualify on the basis of believing in at least one and therefor being theistic? or does one fail to qualify on the basis of failing to believe in a single supreme being?

                        As with anything else, opinions vary. The only consistent advice I was given while doing my research was to find a lodge whose existing members beliefs were capable of respecting mine.

                        I'm not of sufficient rank to know the specifics, but it's my understanding that some ranks of some lines of advancement specifically require an oath to a god like Abraham's or some such. Essentially these are christian branches of masonic advancement as far as I can tell from the oustide. Thankfully, they are not required for advancement within my grand lodge. I can't speak to whether they are required anywhere else.
                        • Re: freemasonry?

                          Fri, June 6, 2008 - 8:07 PM
                          I am in tribe on the fly .. but will answer as best I can in the short time I have availible..

                          <<I think we're better off agreeing to disagree.>>

                          A good solution - it would just bog down the discussion - also I don't thing there is a "wrong" or "right" answer - but just different ones which give different and varied experiences which are all valid.. and if you want to keep talking about it in that context (or any other) - happy too :)

                          <<This alone requires a form of theism>>

                          Sort of... but certainly an atheists does not qualify in "Regular " GL Jurisdictions - but they certainly come and are welcome at my lodges social functions.. ..

                          <<My personal belief is that both animists and atheists could value and learn from masonry.> & <or does one fail to qualify on the basis of failing to believe in a single supreme being? >

                          I asked a Hindu Mason about this.. he is from a polytheistic religion - but says he felt very comfortable because amongst the pantheon - he saw one of the Gods above others - and hence felt he could qualify. The Lodge agreed and admitted him.

                          Different lodges will have different views.... Essentially Freemasonry is without dogma - and if a candidate affirms a believe in a supreme being then what and how he believes and if or how he worships (or venerates) it is his business.. If a sincere Wiccan or Animist wanted to join - I would probably support them. ... Certainly a polytheistic beleif where the candidate was able to say "I believe in a supreme being" (and many devotees of such religions tend to focus on one God) would get the support of the lodge in jioing (and I am on our Committee of Inquiry which talks to potential candidates..)

                          <<The only consistent advice I was given while doing my research was to find a lodge whose existing members beliefs were capable of respecting mine. >>

                          I would have given the same advice .. and moreover suggest you might have been able to find many lodges that would have accepted varying beliefs ...

                          (oh - and all this is not about "converting" you or anything - no doubt you are happy in LDH - it is rather just about having a chin wag about LDH and the Craft..)





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                Re: freemasonry?

                Mon, June 9, 2008 - 4:06 PM
                There was a separation in certain parts of the United States between Black and White lodges, in the racial sense.
                • Re: freemasonry?

                  Tue, June 10, 2008 - 1:08 AM
                  <<There was a separation in certain parts of the United States between Black and White lodges, in the racial sense. >>

                  True - and the Black Lodges were (and are known) as Prince Hall Lodges.. and they have their own Grand Lodges.
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                    Re: freemasonry?

                    Wed, June 11, 2008 - 2:38 PM

                    A beautiful old poem, still very interesting as far as the religious membership and equality goes.

                    The Mother-Lodge
                    By Rudyard Kipling
                    Born 1865

                    There was Rundle, Station Master,
                    An' Beazeley of the Rail,
                    An' 'Ackman, Commissariat,
                    An' Donkin' o' the Jail;
                    An' Blake, Conductor-Sargent,
                    Our Master twice was 'e,
                    With 'im that kept the Europe-shop,
                    Old Framjee Eduljee.

                    Outside -- "Sergeant! Sir! Salute! Salaam!"
                    Inside -- "Brother", an' it doesn't do no 'arm.
                    We met upon the Level an' we parted on the Square,
                    An' I was Junior Deacon in my Mother-Lodge out there!

                    We'd Bola Nath, Accountant,
                    An' Saul the Aden Jew,
                    An' Din Mohammed, draughtsman
                    Of the Survey Office too;
                    There was Babu Chuckerbutty,
                    An' Amir Singh the Sikh,
                    An' Castro from the fittin'-sheds,
                    The Roman Catholick!

                    We 'adn't good regalia,
                    An' our Lodge was old an' bare,
                    But we knew the Ancient Landmarks,
                    An' we kep' 'em to a hair;
                    An' lookin' on it backwards
                    It often strikes me thus,
                    There ain't such things as infidels,
                    Excep', per'aps, it's us.

                    For monthly, after Labour,
                    We'd all sit down and smoke
                    (We dursn't give no banquits,
                    Lest a Brother's caste were broke),
                    An' man on man got talkin'
                    Religion an' the rest,
                    An' every man comparin'
                    Of the God 'e knew the best.

                    So man on man got talkin',
                    An' not a Brother stirred
                    Till mornin' waked the parrots
                    An' that dam' brain-fever-bird;
                    We'd say 'twas 'ighly curious,
                    An' we'd all ride 'ome to bed,
                    With Mo'ammed, God, an' Shiva
                    Changin' pickets in our 'ead.

                    Full oft on Guv'ment service
                    This rovin' foot 'ath pressed,
                    An' bore fraternal greetin's
                    To the Lodges east an' west,
                    Accordin' as commanded
                    From Kohat to Singapore,
                    But I wish that I might see them
                    In my Mother-Lodge once more!

                    I wish that I might see them,
                    My Brethren black an' brown,
                    With the trichies smellin' pleasant
                    An' the hog-darn passin' down;
                    An' the old khansamah snorin'
                    On the bottle-khana floor,
                    Like a Master in good standing
                    With my Mother-Lodge once more!

                    Outside -- "Sergeant! Sir! Salute! Salaam!"
                    Inside -- "Brother", an' it doesn't do no 'arm.
                    We met upon the Level an' we parted on the Square,
                    An' I was Junior Deacon in my Mother-Lodge out there!
                    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: freemasonry?

                    Sat, June 28, 2008 - 4:43 PM
                    I'm going to get you in on a little secret...

                    There is only ONE Grand Lodge, so when you meet people asking "which grand lodge" or speaking of "grand lodges" you know they are not Masons.

                    Of course you can ask them the challenge and wait for the passwords or perform proper protocols of the real and passing grips.

                    If I had a dime for everyone who pretended to be a Mason, they can't even tell me which way they are traveling, let alone get into the real stuff.
                    • Re: freemasonry?

                      Mon, June 30, 2008 - 12:29 PM
                      Lol. That doesn't even work for those who are initiated, since it's necessary to recognize clandestine and irregular masons lest you "accidentally" join a second lodge.

                      It certainly doesn't work for people who are shopping for their first lodge, though.
                      • Unsu...
                         

                        Re: freemasonry?

                        Thu, July 3, 2008 - 8:04 AM
                        It doesn't? I'm not a Mason, but I've fooled several into thinking I was one. They were very very suspicious at first, but after a battery of tests they accepted me. I only wanted to see if the protocols could be compromised, and they can.

                        Now, when you get to the higher echelons, that is a different story. Considering most Masons are unfamiliar with Manly P. Hall, Albert Pike, and their writings it should come as no shock. Sure, they are Masonic household names, but who has ever read Morals and Dogma? Who spends time in the Masonic library? Most Masons think the Masonic system is a bunch of ceremonial bunk--and for them it is.

                        You can act as though it is difficult to fool Masons, but it is not. Most Masons are "porch Masons". Like a Christian who is not familiar with the Bible more than he has to be, and like an apostate American who dares to claim allegiance to this country when he cannot even properly describe the substance of any of the amendments of the Bill of Rights and probably doesn't even know 3-5 words from the preamble of the Constitution.

                        Indeed, the profane goyen infect the Masonic order just as readily as they infect the rest of the world. You may put on airs and graces about Masonic security, but, we both know the truth.
                        • Re: freemasonry?

                          Thu, July 3, 2008 - 9:25 AM
                          Yes, most masons are porch masons.

                          There's also a difference in the types of acceptance. There are basically two levels.

                          The first level, the level you're talking about, is easy to fool, you're right. That's an informal level and nearly any mason will accept anyone who can talk intelligently on the topic of masonry as a viable conversation partner for the topics of masonry, and this includes the passcodes, gestures, signs, etc, (although these do vary from lodge to lodge). This happens on all of the online boards daily. This is the level of relationship between two individual "masons" of different lodges.

                          The second level is the formal level - the level of relationship between two lodges or between to grand lodges. In this relationship, one lodge may declare another to be irregular or clandestine as a way of both admitting that they are masons, (so that you can't join that other lodge concurrently with ours), and yet not good enough to participate in our lodge ceremonies directly. If you attempt to participate in lodge of any masons I know of, you'll be asked to present a dues card issued to you from a recognized organization. Without the dues card, it won't matter what passwords or codes you know, you won't be admitted to lodge.

                          It is entirely common to be both denied participation in someone's lodge and yet to simultaneously be invited into their discussion group.
                          • Unsu...
                             

                            Re: freemasonry?

                            Thu, July 3, 2008 - 10:14 AM
                            The world has a double, friend. Why should Masonic acceptance be any different?

                            There is only one Grand Lodge. Other Grand Lodges are profane. There are houses within Masonry: York Rite, Scottish Rite, and so on. They may have their own Grand Lodges, but, they are not THE Grand Lodge. Maybe we are having some miscommunication on this point?

                            My Grandfather was a Past Master. I'm sure you are familiar with the position and degree, he ascended to higher degrees--not within the houses. I read his books, and my fathers--he only had the blue book. I realize they are in code, but they are not that difficult to figure out. I know the lessons get very deep, and it takes a lot of study to properly articulate the information. I do not deny that if you were to perform an analysis of my knowledge of the craft you would discover me as an outsider.

                            I am aware of the dues card, I've seen many of those. I know many Masons, I have many Masons in my family. Members of my family are also involved in other "societies of secrets". I would NEVER attempt to enter a lodge misrepresenting myself as a Freemason. I would, however, approach the lodge and state my credentials and request acceptance. I would never approach a Mason, a Masonic Lodge, or Masonic function with anything less than respect. My family has a long tradition of participation in Masonry that may or may not continue through me. I am waiting for the right Lodge and the right mentor to help me with my lessons. I have had several offers over the years, most of them came when I was in the Army.

                            Also by "admitted to the lodge" I assume you mean in the sense of the congregation of the Right and Honorable Gentlemen of the Lodge. I have walked into Masonic Lodges and entered the Temple of Solomon. I have sat on various thrones in various temples as well. There were no meetings occurring at the time, so I suppose it was not a temple at the time. I realize what is protected and what is not protected, and I would never violate craft secrets.

                            The Freemasons were founded as a good group of good men, and they have done good works throughout history. There are perversions of Masonry, and we need not speak of them. One day, when I am in the position to receive him, a mentor from my good lodge will appear.



                            • Re: freemasonry?

                              Mon, July 7, 2008 - 8:55 PM
                              well said, in addition to the Lodge, the Invisible College of the Rosy Cross, like the "True" Grand Lodge is not a "thing" one seeks out...if you are set on your path..."they will appear."
                              • Unsu...
                                 

                                Re: freemasonry?

                                Fri, July 11, 2008 - 9:21 AM

                                Right, why don't you tell us all about it on Illuminati Coast to Coast when you are done making your death threats to old Women and to young children.

                                We recognize you, Joshua Seraphim, and we don't need you malarkey here too. Go back to MySpace with all the other fakes.
  • Re: freemasonry?

    Sat, July 26, 2008 - 7:20 PM
    I might have an unique posture here, since I am a 32 Prince of the Royal Secret and VII in the MSCRIF. In addition, I have attained Adept in the IOT, resigned, and have formed over 4 temples since resigning. I am currently a practicing mage, although I am no longer restricted to chaos magick or any other rubric.

    A mason strives to be free and search for the answer to selfcreation. That being said, there are many opinions as to how that operates. I am not here to dogmatized, except to say, freemasonry instills a rubric. This matrix allows one to develop creative schemes as a unique individual. There is no religion or dogma in masonry.

    Carlos Melendez

    "How many fingers do I have".... five? wrong look again! Now how many fingers do I have.....six; but in the case one. LOL

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