what is the ego

topic posted Tue, June 3, 2008 - 12:10 PM by  Unsubscribed
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i have almost finished an ekhart tolle book called a new earth and he talks ALOT about the ego and how its bad and we should all strive to get rid of it. the more i try to understand what the go is the more confused i get. isnt there a reason we developed an ego and is it more than what we think it is. is ego the same as selfish ??? or is it more than that? or are all these things people talk about just semanitcs??
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  • Re: what is the ego

    Tue, June 3, 2008 - 12:56 PM
    it depends upon what you definition of ego is and also what you aim is
    I think from the view of someone who is trying to achieve a cosmic oneness (whatever they may call it) ego is ultimately the enemy because it carries the illusion of separation with it. As long as you have ego, you will be separate.

    I don't think of my ego as being evil or bad. Its can be a nuisance (as I think the ego is the nay sayer, or my self doubt) but sometimes its good to double check yourself before acting.
  • Re: what is the ego

    Tue, June 3, 2008 - 1:25 PM
    IMO, it's largely semantics.

    Ego is related to consciousness is related to will, desire, and experience. From a shamanic perspective, you have to have some... well, Carlos Casteneda called it an "assemblage point" where sensation is collected, processed, and turned into experience.

    Personally, I don't think ego is necessarily bad. I think there's a set of problems which can occur when it is given too much credence and I think that there's a set of problems that occur when it is given too little credence. Ego is necessary for creating and maintaining agreements. For making plans. For conscious learning and for intentional reasoning in the abstract. It's not strictly necessary for "body" learning, but imo, the people who are weak on ego can't really make a commitment to continuing to learn or to consistent rituals. They tend to be more blown about by the winds of social whatever and can't really make a stand.

    Ego is the thing that recognizes identity, ownership, and experience. In the absence of ego, none of those things exist.

    Whether these are good things or bad sort of depends on your perspective. If you're mired in expectations heaped on you by your parents, believe that society dictates who you must be, and you spend considerable amounts of attention on these things, or on superficial values like appearances, then you might benefit from the loss of some ego.

    However, if you enjoy life generally, but sometimes regret that you havent' or can't participate in long term or deep projects, sciences, academia, manage your money, or own a house, then you might benefit from the recognition of and added attention to ego.
    • Re: what is the ego

      Tue, June 3, 2008 - 1:38 PM
      I think one of the big follies of imported mysticism is that a specific term (ahaṃkāra) has been translated throughout the years as "ego", and thus the freudian ego and the technical sanskrit term have become confused - while there is some overlap, the two are technically distinct. surely one needs an ego (in the sense of self) to function on a day to day basis - without an idea of "this is me" and "I am doing this" we would be puddles. the eastern teachings are more of a roadsign to steer one away from false identification with material objects (to the exclusion of energy - one is not sacrificed for the other) than an attempt to push one into a non-self state; the idea is that the limited self is part of a greater Self. a lot of those wonky new age gurus get this all kinds of fucked up, which is why they affect detachment and often speak of themselves in the third person. it's a big show because they don't understand the point of "killing" or "silencing" the ahaṃkāra - they are a laughable example of poor reading comprehension in a foreign language.
      • Re: what is the ego

        Tue, June 3, 2008 - 1:49 PM
        when we visited India and hung out with homeless sadhus who lived in cremation grounds, they all had quite distinct personalities. if we were bereft of this, we would be little more than drones, and while that would be useful to people who wish to control others, this is not a step forward in terms of any kind of self-work. I do think that having temporary ego crises or "ego death" is an interesting and mind expanding experience - it allows one to break out of the limited idea one has of selfhood - but afterwards you go, "wow, I am not boxed in by what I believe are the boundaries of who I am" as opposed to "there is no me anymore, that means I am enlightened". hell, look at the Dalai Lama. I don't have much time for Buddhism, but that guy has a big ol' personality - an ego in the western sense. nothing wrong with that. the problem is seeing the accretions of one's personality as all that you are. when you take a step back, you can see that you are free to be anything. your conditioning is not who you are.
        • Re: what is the ego

          Tue, June 3, 2008 - 2:30 PM
          I concur that ego death is curious.

          People, (mee too), often respond to ego threats as though their very physical lives were being threatened. This is understandable, but unnecessary. I believe that ego death, (and subsequent reconstitution), can be a constructive tool. I think this is what Carlos Casteneda was talking about when our boy jumped off the cliff and did his reassemblage trick.

          However, like anything, I think it can be overdone. I've seen people in the bdsm community, and perhaps in some ritual communities and some pharmaco-journeying communities who appeared to be addicted to this sort of ego reset. Seems to me that someone who does nothing but ego resets all day isn't getting anywhere either.
          • Re: what is the ego

            Tue, June 3, 2008 - 2:50 PM
            hehe, definitely!

            if you're just doing it over and over for it's own sake and not integrating what you've learned into your day to day life, it's not really getting you anywhere, is it? I'm as guilty as anyone. at the end of the last century (doesn't that sound weird?) I was full-ahead with the entheogens and was having a traumatic ego crisis almost daily, on purpose. while hallucinogens are generally not physically addictive in and of themselves, it certainly became an addictive behavior pattern for me at that time. I'm not sorry that I did it, I have a ton of interesting stories, but I wouldn't want to be in that rut again. I think it ended up becoming less of a shamanic self initiation than a blotting out of my mind in the end.
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              Re: what is the ego

              Tue, June 3, 2008 - 9:01 PM
              i have to agree its not so much about losing the sense of self, but in how you define it.
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    Re: what is the ego

    Wed, June 4, 2008 - 7:13 PM
    The ego has a position rather like the demiurge. It stands between the real you, your soul, psyche, whatever and the rest of the universe. It is the interface between the two. Illusions created by the memory process also permit the ego to reconstitute the residual selfimage.
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    Re: what is the ego

    Sun, June 22, 2008 - 7:28 PM
    I do not believe we should or even can get rid of it. We need to work with it. It is like a spoiled child screaming for attention. We need to love it it so it feels safe and a part of the whole.
  • Re: what is the ego

    Mon, June 23, 2008 - 11:10 PM
    An elected voice, put in place to smooth social functioning.
    A faculty which grants us the practical, yet illusory, tool of "I"

    This tool grants us the ability to divide - "This, not that"
    Grants us to say "I don't need to look at this right now, because I already know it's specifics" (Which, for all it's TREMENDOUS REPERCUSSIONS - Ignorance - has a lot of value based off of Left Brain functions. Such as language.)

    The same faculty that allows the sound of the clock to become invisible in the background, which, in turn, allows us to read a book in a crowded place, in peace.

    The same thing that grants us a lens through which we experience transpersonal sensations, born of a semi-static body and circumstance.

    A good friend, that shouldn't starve, but should, not oft, be satisfied.

    Egos are like balloons.
    The bigger they get, the more likely they are to catch on things, and the more noise they make when they deflate.
    • Re: what is the ego

      Mon, June 23, 2008 - 11:52 PM
      The ego is what prompts people to reply here. It is the drive to spread one's soul throughout the universe.

      (I define soul as the collection of one's ideas - and I realize that that is not a common definition, but it seems to work for me. We are a gradual accretion of the ideas of others [parts of their souls], and in turn, we spread our memes to others. This is as inherent to our nature as is spreading our genes.)

      The drive to reproduce our ideas is the major function of the ego. The ego assesses the assemblage of ideas that I call the soul, and modifies it based on experience, and filters incoming ideas, and monitors the assemblage - the soul - for self-coherence. Then it attempts to pass on these ideas to others.
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        Re: what is the ego

        Tue, June 24, 2008 - 11:36 AM
        these are some amazing responses
        to me the ego is life experiences how our individuality and personal experiences create the "I"
        things that i dislike things i like
        my traumas, my bliss, my morals
        have much to do with me and my personal experienes
        and during bad times when others deflate me or you sabotage your self
        the ego tries to find ways of protecting itself .sometimes you can be an alchemical genius and change this into gold by creating coping mechanisms that benefit
        and when people praise you or you have self esteem
        the ego is nurtured but when it is spoiled too much it can lead selfishness if the ego is out of the context of love.
  • Re: what is the ego

    Thu, June 26, 2008 - 11:20 AM
    ONE CAN NEVER GET RID OF THE EGO THAT IS FOOLISH NONSENSE- FIRST OF ALL THE EGO DOESNT EXISTS- ITS A WORD- ITS NOT THE IT- FORGET EGO What is important is for you to emotionally and intellectually understand that you arent important none of us are- let it go- let it go- now in terms of getting rid of the EGO all this means is find a way to your calm center of your true self- and your false self will drop away- but aside from an occasionalLSD trip or dancing for a day or two- the best way to ensure of this is serious DAILY PRACTICE of meditation or concentration excercises

    look I have tripped over 333 times on good Harvard LSD- had bad trips and so called good ones and you simply can not lose your EGO it takes a lot of work to remain in n "egoless" state of mind a LOT OF CONINOUS work and then to what end?
  • Re: what is the ego

    Sat, June 28, 2008 - 4:47 AM
    I think the good nuns of St. John's, where I attended elementary school, would have referred to the ego as "your conscience" or/and "your demon".
    Personally, I think the ego is a weird by-product of our dependency on language. It gave voice to some minor function of the brain that questions intent. A wild animal moves and acts purely doing what his true will requires, and doubt comes to play as a cautionary survival impulse. It's not that it isn't always presents but in a non-verbal mind it's influence is negligible except in moments of stress. In a verbal mind it finds a voice, increasing in intensity with stress, true, but also always present like some background program. Sometimes though we stimulate this center ourselves because we confuse it with our true self. We make it apart of ourself indentity, but in reality is a kind of addiction. This is what is referred to as neurosis.

    Another way of looking at it, once again using an animal model, is when wild animals are being tamed through the breaking of its will. Essentially, heightening the cautionary impulse, creating self doubt. I would go as far as saying the taming of a being is to create for it an ego to counter it's true will.
    • Re: what is the ego

      Tue, July 1, 2008 - 8:54 PM
      Where is this 'ego' of which you speak? Show me one. Funny, I don't see anything. You all appear to me to be drawing a line around a group of behaviors, which are essentially verbs, and by the mystical transubstantiative effect of grouping them together,...I guess they become 'ego', which is a noun? I'm still not seeing it. I guess if you talk it up (and plenty do), then it becomes a thing, just like god, or spider man, or anything else.

      I think that to take a bunch of verbs, group them together and call the group a noun, doesn't really make it a noun (a thing). Rather, I think it is an exercise in commenting on our earlier commentary. Which is great, I mean look at the western philosophical tradition, but many people struggle with this 'ego', and much of it may be unnecessary, as I don't think it (the ego) exists.

      I am however willing to bet that the brain exists.
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        Re: what is the ego

        Tue, July 1, 2008 - 10:34 PM
        >>I am however willing to bet that the brain exists. <<

        well, thats just your ego talking
        • Re: what is the ego

          Wed, July 2, 2008 - 10:06 PM
          hehe

          I just recently did a massive ego overhaul. feels pretty nice. all the "me"s are rather arbitrary. it is interesting to be a different viewer through the same glass.

          easy to see which things were worth bringing along and which weren't. throw away your crutches but not your tools.
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        Re: what is the ego

        Thu, July 3, 2008 - 2:21 AM
        I'm sorry did you write a reply that meant anything? Could you show it to me? I couldn't see it. Apparently you wrote a series of sentences, which were just composed of a series of words, through which some strange voodoo magic were supposed to become a a coherent and thoughtful reply. C'mon, seriously, come down from the horse, we're all playing in the pool now.

        Oh, my friend gerund said hello, he is a verb that is a noun.

        Does arguing about grammar, really strike you as effective logic? I mean, you could at least argue semantics or spelling, (yes spelling, how many times have we seen groups where people say, "Dragonlord500 is obviously an idiot and you shouldn't listen to anything he says because he can't spell miscellaneous. I am far superior to him and dare not actually comment on what he actually wrote because I am finding something inane to attack his character with, thus displaying my superiority, I mean my awesome powers of superior humility.") I am used to that sort of behavior, but saying that people are wrong because they used verbs to describe a noun? That's new to me.

        Hmm, Sean is a noun. So is AJ (me) Would you care to define yourself using only nouns? Otherwise I might not be able to believe that you, or I, for that matter, exist.

        And speaking of I, ego equals I, as I have posted above, so there is is your definition, using a minimum of words and a noun.

        So, do you believe that I don't exist, or that I don't exist meaning you not me, because if you believe for yourself that I don't exist, I still exist, but you meaning I don't exist, because you still exists even if I don't exist, but I guess that at the point you don't exist either, but you still exists and I still exist.
        AJ

        p.s. I couldn't resist, but I doesn't exist So I didn't do it, because things that don't exist can't do anything except scare the crap out of people that think that they do exist, therefore giving an ethereal existence to things to do not exist, giving them an existence all the same, therefore they exist but they do not, or rather they don't but do, or don't but do not, except they are felt by their absence.

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    Re: what is the ego

    Thu, July 3, 2008 - 1:52 AM
    Quoting from Wikipedia, though I knew this before i read the article (is that my ego?)

    full article available: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ego

    "Id, ego, and super-ego are the three parts of the "psychic apparatus" defined in Freud's so-called structural model of the psyche; they are the three theoretical constructs in terms of whose activity and interaction mental life is described. According to this model, the uncoordinated instinctual trends are the "id"; the organised realistic part of the psyche is the "ego," and the critical and moralizing function the "super-ego.". . .

    The terms "id," "ego," and "super-ego" are not Freud's own but are latinisations originating from his translator James Strachey. Freud himself wrote of "das Es," "das Ich," and "das Über-Ich"—respectively, "the It," "the I," and the "Over-I" (or "Upper-I"); thus to the German reader, Freud's original terms are more or less self-explanatory." end citatation

    So, if the ego is the I, why should one eradicate the I?

    Many traditions vary tremendously on the value of identity, whether it exists validly, or should be expunged.
    For example, modern neurology shows consciousness to be a system rather than a singularity, no point in the brain system has been mapped to be the true center of awareness, identity is an everchanging interplay of those systems.

    In my experience, what most spiritual teachers mean when they say you must eradicate ego, is that you must learn to control desire and your sense of your self before and above others. In essence you are asked to let go of your distance to other beings and become one with everything, and ultimately one everything, no identity is needed because we have lost the I, which has been telling us all along that we are nothing without our sense of self, our ego, while in reality we are everything without it.

    But this is the end state, usually the result of much work on whatever path we choose. It could be instantaneous, but often is not. Some say this is due to karma, others that we must surrender to the glory of god, still others that we must learn to forgive.

    So, when you are ready, willing and able to say, "I am we, and we are I," do us all a favor and don't be too hard on yourself, and do your best.

    But if you must be selfish, then be wisely selfish, and make your desire the happiness of others, remembering to be truly magnanimous and unwanting of praise, but accept it when it is given.
    AJ
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      Re: what is the ego

      Thu, July 3, 2008 - 1:55 AM
      Somehow forgot to type two words in last post:

      "So, when you are ready, willing and able to say, "I am we, and we are I" UNTILL THEN, do us all a favor and don't be too hard on yourself, and do your best.

      But if you must be selfish, then be wisely selfish, and make your desire the happiness of others, remembering to be truly magnanimous and unwanting of praise, but accept it when it is given.
      AJ
      • Re: what is the ego

        Thu, July 3, 2008 - 12:47 PM
        I know it sounds like I'm arguing semantics, but all I'm doing is pointing out that ego speculation is itself an exercise in semantics. I thank you for your extensive reference to linguistics, as it somewhat bolsters my point (personally, when it comes to linguistics, I'm a Chomsky guy). There is a certain amount of annihilation inherent in the realization that the ego is an illusion, but a few years of daily zazen practice has shown not only me, but millions of others, that this is nonetheless the case. Generally speaking in the modern, industrialized world, this is heresy, and tends to provoke a great wailing and gnashing of teeth. Alan Watts has written extensively on this subject. The idea is afoot that if the ego doesn't exist, then the sack of bones and water claiming to have an ego also doesn't exist. This is maya, and it is what makes lifestyle transitions difficult for many people ("I don't know who I am anymore!"), it's what gives people the need to influence other people. It makes life hard in many ways. Note that I'm not saying the ego makes life hard. It is the attachment to false ideas that makes life hard.

        Monotheists are attached to a similar idea, that they have an invisible component, without which their existence would be nullified in some way, and it drives them crazy. They go around killing people, sometimes en masse, over it.

        Here's my quote:
        "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
        See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly.
        I'm crying."

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