North American Natives And Chaos

topic posted Mon, December 1, 2008 - 5:58 PM by  Unsubscribed
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I was having a discussion over in the Herbal Tribe about Medicine Men/Shamans using ceremony, herbs in particlular, in my opinion it doesn't seem like magic to me. Speaking in general terms of course, the north american native tribes and "magic" Perhaps a lower level, perhaps a local source of inspiration, plants, trees, animals, earth energy, Then there is HigherMagick that is connected to a Higher Forces/Sources. Is there any thoughts? I do not believe that the common shaman is conected like that. I know that once you get closer to the equator, The Aztecs, Mayans, Toltecs know they had the blood sacrifices, which as little as I know about this kinda stuff, you must shed blood(like mass tribal wars, kill your young men in battle, sacrifice children at the alter) to get the attention of the higher forces. You know, the same Religion practiced by our Bohemian Goverment.

Anyway am I wrong for assuming that The Natives were not aware... i'd like to think of them as mosty peaceful, mostly tradition of nature, down to earth. Is that still considered magick. I have my Golden Bough by Frazier in front of me but he says nothing that convinces me its High Magic.
I am not aware...
ThankYou For YOur Time
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  • Re: North American Natives And Chaos

    Mon, December 1, 2008 - 9:33 PM
    The sacrifice and offering of blood appeases merely Genetic Atavisms of Carnivorous-Us-In-Past-Forms.
    (Never forget, dude, you used to be a DINOSAUR!)

    People of varying caliburs of magick exist in all fields
    practicing all techniques
    with varying degrees of finesse.

    Does a man with the slickest of tongues,
    evoker of memorable tale tellings
    and filler of senses, with words

    not work a magick?

    (as he walks away with your wallet in hand... disappearing it, to the eyes, with a flick, then, of the wrist?)

    Does the teacher not work their magick, stilling a class of restless children and priming them with information?

    Do you work no magick as you orchestrate the typing of your fingers, calling from the "Well" of memory symbol sets which make words, so you can share experiences with us?



    "High" Magick:
    Acts of Liberation;
    Unshackling, and ever extending the limits.

    "Low" Magick:
    Using that same liberation in Malkuth.
    Manifestation and Sorcery.

    Shamanism and its ceremonies typically revolve around healing - the great convincing of freedom to comfort - and therefor, "High" Magick, by the classical definition.

    Which magickian has greater powers?

    Magickian L, who, in smoke filled chambers, exhausts their vocabulary of archaic names, glimpsing fantastic colour and form in the field of their imagination behind their eyes, hearing disembodied voices, and then, ritual finished, goes back to their job and daily life, lesson learned, if not continuously applied?

    OR

    Magickian R who has un-erringly good "luck" in matters of transportation, who arrives to purchase a particular item only to find it on sale, with a complementary bottle of water accompanying it, and, en route to their destination, after spreading some of their abundance to a pan-handler who happened to share a particularly inspiring story, meets with a friend they'd intended to speak with a few days earlier, and forgotten until just this convenient moment; oh, fantastic, they *do* have that information R'd sought...



    What would you, with all your justification, seek to accomplish IN YOUR LIFE,
    WITH YOUR HUMAN BODY
    Oh Domesticated Primate?

    And piss on the confines what keep Magick the stuff OTHER PEOPLE wrote.

    It's *all* Magick, dude, ALL OF IT.

    And last I checked, off of the planet (immersed within so-called "Chaos" [*licks*]), all direction becomes relative.
    So, "High" as compared to *what* specifically?
    • Re: North American Natives And Chaos

      Tue, December 2, 2008 - 12:28 AM
      if you read "Black Elk Speaks"
      you will find one of the most explicit descriptions
      of the Knowledge and Conversation of the Holy Guardian Angel
      using imagery that is archetypally parallel to that used in Liber Samek.

      The Vision Quest, a corner stone of initiation in many Native American traditions
      is essentially a form of the Abramelin working.

      How is that not High Magick?


      • Re: North American Natives And Chaos

        Wed, December 3, 2008 - 11:36 PM
        OK folks... earth magic is low magic (yes malkuth)
        and herb/ plant magic is based on the SPIRITS or GENII
        that inhabit all the plants
        the process of working with these spirits or
        drawing them out or combining them and working with them
        or letting them work with you
        is not high magic.
        but I'd love to read that black elk description of
        the abramelin work... got page numbers??
        cheers
        • Re: North American Natives And Chaos

          Thu, December 4, 2008 - 11:31 AM
          i will have to look up the page numbers
          ...the imagery occurred during the initiatory sickness/vision
          through which Black Elk met the spirit/self that functioned as his HGA
          during a scene of exaltation into the sky...
          the process of vision-quest, the magical retirement for the purpose of attaining
          direct communion with one's purpose/will/spirit
          is not directly described in the book
          but is prevalent in more than one nation's traditions

          the details differ but the process is the same
  • Re: North American Natives And Chaos

    Tue, December 2, 2008 - 12:16 PM
    or, as I believe Pope Pete said (in one of his books, its around here somewhere, I am just being too lazy to quote it directly) that real high magick is beyond all of those things. High magic is magic without form or action. The "empty handed gesture" as it were, where by thier vary nature, that sorcerer reshapes reality to his will, by his Will and naught else.

    So, No one I have met, shaman or golden dawn, OTO or Gardenerian truly practices "HIgh Magic"

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